Tuesday, 11 September 2012

Embarrassment for Carl Gallups' ministry (PPSimmons) - why can they not answer simple questions?

What started off as asking a few simple questions in the comments section of one of Carl Gallups' videos, on their PPSimmons youtube channel, turned into a very saddening and defensive display in which I never received a straight answer; even though I had been ensured I would receive an answer and that they wanted to answer me.  The following is the dialogue which took place upon my being asked to email the ministry and to discuss the points I had raised one-on-one.  I am sure you will agree that this is a rather immature way of conducting an objective discussion.  I personally consider this a poor witness and hope you will join me in praying for Carl Gallups and the man who handles these emails and I pray you will also consider asking them some similar questions in future.
My dialogue will be written in blue;
PPSimmons’ will be written in red.

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
As per request, İ am emailing to obtain a response to some comments İ left on the video entitled 'WHO İS İSRAEL?'
This was the dialogue -

- Romans 8.9 ...if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And Abraham's seed is Christ and His body according to Galatians.
As for the prophecies misquoted in İsaiah and Ezekiel, these are spiritually fulfiied in
 Christ.
İ cannot agree with Gallups Jesuit-inspired futurist views. These have distorted Protestantism terribly.
5to22a 1 day ago
- Sir - this video has NOTHING to do with who belongs to Christ or not. You are right even the Jew needs Jesus or he is lost. Carl preaches this very clearly. The point is that the Bible says that ISRAEL (the nation) WILL BE God's sign to the world of his existence, and the soon return of Jesus in the last days. Carl took nothing out of context. Nothing is distorted. Carl has been teaching, studying, and preaching for 30 years. You are talking of something entirely different here.
ppsimmonsin reply to 5to22a 1 day ago
-  Can you show me a verse in the New Testament to indicate that İsrael will be restored as a nation state?
İf not, then the prophecies quoted from the OT must be interpreted spiritually as the context clearly indicates. Unless you think that Gentiles will be bringing sacrifices to the mount in the last days and keeping the Sabbath and new moons, all of which would be contrary to the New and eternal Covenant in Christ.
5to22ain reply to ppsimmons 8 hours ago
- Write us at ppsimmons@liveDOTCOM. We don't have room here to answer you. But - we really would like to answer you on this - it is a good question that you have asked. God bless.
ppsimmonsin reply to 5to22a 9 minutes ago


İ do not feel that İ received a proper response to my message as İ quoted scriptures indicating who İsrael are according to the New Testament - the body of Christ.  İ was told that this is not really what the video is about, though the title indicates otherwise as well as the content of the video.  İ further would like a response to the fact that the seven-year future tribulation period was a doctrine developed by the Jesuits during the counter-Reformation to distort the Protestant interpretation of the Revelation.  This is the view espoused by Gallups and, sadly, by most of professing Protestants today.  İ would also like a response to the question which İ was told was a good question and which you would lile to respond to.

İ mean no offence and write only in love and desire to walk in the truth and to see brethren doing the same.

İn Christ,
Rik Storey
Dark Day Ministries

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
Hey Rik - Let's start with your assertion that we promote a future seven-year tribulation. We do not. In fact we take a lot of heat for it. We believe that nowhere does the Bible teach the pretrib message which seems to be completely fabricated based on a misinterpretation of Dan 9:27.
The fact that you falsely ascribed the future seven year trib to us means you don't really have a solid grip on what we really teach. If you wish to continue please send us one question (question only) at a time only after more thoroughly investigating our material.

Regards
PPSIMMONS

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
 Do you teach a futurist interpretation of the Revelation?  This includes any view which states that Daniel's 70th week is to be fulfilled in the last 7 years of time before the return of Christ.  The views are often broken down into the pre-tribulational, pre-wrath or midtribulational and finally the post-tribulational.  Do you teach any of these views?

İ refer you to your video below -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvmrL1hfaek&feature=plcp

Christian regards,
Rik 

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
 The Bible is crystal clear on many issues - one being that the sixth trumpet is imminent followed by the seventh trumpet rapture followed by the wrath prophecies. We have clearly shown how the first five trumpets have blown in stunning detail beginning with WW2. Are you a Preterist?  

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
No, not a Preterist (this was also devised by the Jesuits during the counter-Reformation).  İ hold to the Historicist view, which actually was the mainstream Protestant view until the past 100 years or so.  As stated previously, the Jesuits deliberately espoused the false doctrine of futurism which was taken up with great interest (foolishly so) by John Nelson Darby and Scofield of the Scofield Bible and has since enthralled Evangelicals to the extent that the Jesuits entirely succeeded in their plan.
So, does your ministry hold to a futurist view of the pre-wrath variety?
 

Wed, 29 Aug 2012
This point is axiomatic. If you believe physical Israel has no right to the land and that all Endtime prophecy was fulfilled in or around 70ad you are a Preterist... In which case we need to deal with that. Have you watched our series on the trumpets? If you do you may have no choice but to jettison your eschatological wordview friend.  

Thu, 30 Aug 2012
İ am absolutely not a Preterist and have made Bible studies refuting the foundation of this belief - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaG60JuIzmA
As İ explained, this view was developed by the Jesuits to what it is today and İ personally do not believe all prophecy was fulfilled before 70AD.  As İ also explained, İ am an Historicist - this was at one time the mainstream Protestant view and İ am sure you can find plenty of information about it if you have never heard of it.  This is the view that the Revelation is fulfilled throughout Christian history rather than just in the 1st Century or at the very end of days.
As wikipedia points out, there are four main views of the Revelation -



Historicist, which sees in Revelation a broad view of history;
Preterist, in which Revelation mostly refers to the events of the apostolic era (1st century), or--at the latest--the fall of the Roman Empire;
Futurist, which believes that Revelation describes future events; and
Idealist, or Symbolic, which holds that Revelation does not refer to actual people or events, but is an allegory of the spiritual path and the ongoing struggle between good and evil.

Now that this has been established, could you answer my question.  Do you hold to the futurist view of the Revelation?  İ have yet to get to the question for which you said you would love to give me an answer, so to answer this first one would be beneficial to us both.
Sun, 2 Sep 2012
Dear sir,

İt has been a few days since İ heard from you and so İ would like to restate my questions, trusting that you are not simply ignoring me:
 İ have yet to receive an answer from you for my first question - Do you hold to the pre-wrath rapture version of the futurist interpretation of the Revelation?

The question which you said you would love to respond to is this one - Can you show me a
 verse in the New Testament to indicate that İsrael will be restored as a nation state?

Also, as İ stated initially, İ do not feel you gave a proper response as to how İsrael after the flesh can have any part with God when Paul says they are 'none of His' (Romans 8.9) and how they can still be considered Abraham's seed when Paul says, by God's Spirit, that Abraham's seed is Christ and the body of believers in Christ (Galatians 3).  Could you respond to this point also?  İ do not feel that simply declaring 'İsrael has a right to the land' is handling my point at all, though, in terms of physical land, İ feel the Lord Jesus Christ answers this succinctly -
John 4.21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

İ trust you were speaking in earnest before God Almighty when you said you wanted to respond to me.
Thank you for your time.
Christian regards,
Rik

Sun, 2 Sep 2012
 Please watch this five-part teaching series produced by our ministry. If you don't agree simply move on. There is nothing to be gained by arguing with us about this. We have not submitted to you in any way and we are not changing our mind on this. We are not going to agree on Israel if we don't agree on this basic eschatalogical reality.

Sun, 2 Sep 2012
İ wasn't asking you to submit to the teaching of scripture as İ understand it, though of course that would give me great delight.  İ was simply asking you to define your belief.
Also, if you do not want to state your interpretation of the Revelation etc., you can still respond to my initial question posted in the comments section of the youtube video.

You did say, 'we really would like to answer you on this
'.  İ would like that too.
The question was - Can you show me a
 verse in the New Testament to indicate that İsrael will be restored as a nation state?

Christian regards, as always,
Rik 

Mon, 3 Sep 2012
There are 66 books in the Bible. Please watch our newest video on the topic of Israel 

Tue, 4 Sep 2012
There are indeed 66 books, but the New and eternal Covenant is not according to the old and Christ tells us that the old covenant speaks of Him.
I have watched the video and feel that the view presented is not a logically consistent one.  Ezekiel 36:24ff. is presented as evidence that God will restore the nation of Israel.  Yet, if we are to interpret these passages in this way then we must also interpret Jeremiah 31 as speaking of ethnic Jews in the very last days and not of the New Covenant established by Christ, as we are told it is Hebrews 8.  One must also interpret Joel 2 as speaking of Israel after the flesh in the very last days and not of the event of Pentecost to establish the true Israel of God - the New Testament church, as we are told it is by Peter in Acts 2.
This interpretation does not sit well in light of the New Testament.

Am I to take it then that your response to my question is 'No'?
Can you show me a
 verse in the New Testament to indicate that İsrael will be restored as a nation state?

Seeking the truth as it is in Jesus,
Rik 

Tue, 4 Sep 2012
Have you seen our "Proving the Existence of God" video? Please look at it. The problem you have is that Israel is back in the land. And we are facing the imminent fulfillment of the Sixth Trumpet prophecy (which you also seem to disagree with). There may be too much disagreement here to reconcile - a bridge too far if you will. We are dealing with the realities on the ground as we speak - existential realities which show prophecy playing out in stunning detail. We do not have any room to entertain other interpretations because ours fits perfectly. Please watch our "Proving the Existence of God" video.  

Thu, 6 Sep 2012
Sorry I did not respond sooner.
I think that basing your beliefs based primarily on what you see occurring around you in the physical world is not safe.  I think one should base one's eschatological views on the Word of God alone.  Not just prophetic or end times doctrine, but all of one's understanding and wisdom must come from the Word of God alone.

Sun Moon, creator of the Unification Church (so-called) and one who declared himself to be the return of Christ, died recently at the age of 92.  I pray that many souls will see that this man was a false Christ and will be drawn by the Father to the true Christ and salvation.  But how is one to determine whether this man was the return of our Lord or not?  Surely it is by the Word of God.
In like manner, simply because I see ethnic Jews, whom Paul says are not really Jews at all in Romans 2:28-29, returning to a plot of land which the Lord Jesus Christ says is of no importance in John 4:21-23, this does not cause me to abandon what the Word of God says.

Your 'existential realities' and 'realities on the ground' are only significant if they concur with the Word of God; not vice versa.  I further do not find your interpretation to fit perfectly.  If it were to fit perfectly then I would have expected better and more convincing responses with quotes from scripture on your part, especially to the questions I have presented.  The truth is powerful and easy to defend.
Yet, your interpretation whereby the physical land of Israel is of great importance and Israel after the flesh is of great importance seems to go against the plain teaching of the New Testament and therefore of the Holy Spirit.  Is it your belief that there will be some earthly kingdom of the Messiah established amongst the Jews, centering on Jerusalem, as the fleshly Jews of Christ's time believed?
If so, this belief further conflicts with Christ's teaching:
Luke 17:20-21  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
How do you base your reality?  Upon what is occurring around you, which can be deceptive and which are warned against trusting in by the Lord Jesus, or upon God's Word?

Thu, 6 Sep 2012
Listen Rik, we agreed to answer your question, not get into lengthy never-ending debates with you. Romans 11 clearly states that the blindness of Israel is only temporary - until the fullness of the gentiles has come in... then God's attention will turn back to Israel, probably following the seventh-trumpet rapture when a remnant will be saved in Israel. Romans 11 makes this clear distinction. Physical Israel is back in the land - fulfilling prophecy - and God will save a remnant of those souls per Romans 11... 12 thousand from each tribe (Rev 7). 

Thu, 6 Sep 2012 
I quite agree that Romans 11 may very well be teaching this and, being an Amillennialist, I also believe that Satan will be (or has been) loosed to deceive the Gentile nations once more, [perhaps] leaving the Jews as those who will predominantly be saved.  This is an interpretation I cannot absolutely invalidate at all.
However, my question was regarding Jews returning to the land of Israel.  Is there any New Testament precedent to suggest this will occur?  That is my question.  So far you have done everything but actually say, 'No.'

Rik

Thu, 6 Sep 2012
Not just the Jews but ALL of Israel will be saved - 12 thousand from each tribe - not just Judah (Jews) ala Rev 7. It's a little troubling that you insist on harvesting your doctrine exclusively from the NT since... "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16

So Paul himself is saying - the entirety of the "Word" is required for a complete comprehension of doctrine. 

PLEASE watch this PPSIMMONS teaching on the EXTREME importance of Israel returning to the land. Bless you...

Sat, 8 Sep 2012
I don't recall having insisted that one harvest their doctrine exclusively from the New Testament.  I do recall having shown that I believe the Old Testament should be interpreted in light of the New, as the Lord Jesus said it was written of Him (John 5:39); and of course Peter states quite clearly that the Old Testament was written for us, to be interpreted according to the New Covenant and by the Spirit of Christ (1Peter 1:10-12).

So, with this in mind, when we read in the New Testament that Christ says to the chief priests etc. this -
Matthew 21:43  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
- what are we to make of it?  Would you argue that the New Testament should be interpreted in light of the Old and not vice versa?
If not, then what we are told in the New Testament is that Jews after the flesh are not the real Jews, Abraham's seed is Christ and His body, Jerusalem is of no importance as God desires a people to worship Him in His Spirit according to the eternal and better Covenant in Christ and, therefore, the true Israel of God is not Israel after the flesh but another nation, bringing forth fruit in Christ.
All this requires that we interpret Jeremiah 31, Joel 2 and, yes, Ezekiel 36 in light of the New Testament.

Sincerely awaiting your response with all brotherly love in Jesus,
Rik

And I am still waiting.  This is deeply saddening and I feel it expresses the problem with the vast majority of Protestants today.  How many supposed Protestant Bible-teachers today die to themselves and objectively try to discern the truth?  Rather, like worldly, fleshly politicians, they become defensive if you suggest that something they believe could be wrong.  How is a man supposed to be humble and teachable before God if he feels he knows it all.  This is the spirit I all too often encounter in those who claim to follow Christ.  Very few Bible quotes, very little knowledge of Christian history and lots of plugging their latest book.
I must fight this wickedness in myself; indeed, we must all die to ourselves and objectively seek to arrive at the truth together.
Might we speak the truth in love to one another and desire to see the whole body walking uprightly before God, according to His Word. 

4 comments:

  1. Thank you for your voice of reason. I have been very disturbed by the vitriolic statements and affirmations in the videos of PP Simones. I find the fear mongering very sad and disturbing as they create a doctrine of chaos and fear. I am just a lay person seeking to know Christ and working hard to learn His Word. The hatred is clear and I am quite confused by the lack of discourse by others in church.

    His peace be within and upon you.
    Suzan Rhodes

    Your are a voice of reason crying in the dark.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for your kind and encouraging message, sister. I certainly try to speak with reason and I pray that God will always discipline me to lay myself aside to arrive at the truth. I only want the truth for myself and for my fellow brothers and sisters.

      That said, I do not desire people to follow me trustingly but rather to test the things I say and to prayerfully arrive at conclusions for themselves. I am fallible and need God's constant guidance and to be given repentance every day. Even the apostle Paul commended the Bereans in Acts for not taking every word he said as the truth but rather they went to the Scriptures to test everything they heard.

      I became so fed up with being led into all kinds of contradictory views on all sorts of doctrines, not just the end times. I knew the main and essential elements of the Gospel and of salvation, but I just wanted to understand the Bible better for myself. I turned to my wife and said, I think I'm going to have to study all these different 'isms and find out what it is I believe and what it is we are supposed to believe. I haven't stopped since and I have had to recognise that I have been wrong many times, apologise and accept the crumbling of any imagined sense of pride. But I feel liberated the more I learn about our great God and Saviour and the truth of His Word and the wisdom of His ways.

      In short, I know how hard it can be to look at all the different interpretations of the Bible and try to find what's true. I offer my friendship and time to answer any questions you might have to the best of my knowledge without any pressure to believe things exactly as I do. I have many friends with completely different opinions than I do about many matters, such as sprinkling infants, their interpretation of the Revelation etc., but I still consider them Christians and prize the love of Jesus expressed towards one another more than understanding doctrine.
      Like Paul said, if I understand all mysteries but lack love, I have become nothing.

      So please keep in touch if you have any questions or want to bounce any ideas off me or just want to talk about your situation.
      In Christ,
      Richard (or Rik) Storey

      Delete
  2. I received the same treatment from them.

    I believe the person answering their e-mails is Mike Shoesmith. Take a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs9zEjg0IXQ

    In it he basically says that he can generate papers on any subject. I think most of what he is generating is BS; Bad Speech.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I enjoyed reading your panting for knowledge as we all who love the Lord as much as we are able to tend to sometimes here other people's interpretations and we bounce them off of the Cornerstone. Our Rock. His Word. Using the Holy Spirit as our ever present Helper and yet...there are times I think we aren't to know everything. I am by no means scholarly and I know there is a big difference between the Holy Spirit and the emotions where folks feel that they will be whisked away based on our interpretations and what we want and how we think God should act on our behalf based on Who He is and His character....but ignoring sin, repentance, and sanctification. Too many folks only have a feathers on the end of their pens...when it comes to iron sharpening iron...they refer you to their penmanship....and not the Source. Let Jesus be the Head. As we aren't supposed to. May God bless you. In the end...it is His ministry. And we know as believers that He wins. It's His Work. Not ours. We walk out the faith....but point to Him as we brag on Christ and HIM crucified.

    ReplyDelete